Just wondering

[mscoach62]

Was wondering if anyone can clear up some questions for me on coaching "during season" ?
1. If I'm a middle school coach can I coach youth wrestling also. 5th graders and under?
2. If I'm a high school coach can I coach middle school kids too?
I was told that this was ok "during season", but have been turned into wvssac for coaching youth while being a middle school coach in the past. Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks in advance.

[Matofficial]

1. If you are a middle school coach you are not suppose to coach youth wrestling.
2. If you are a HS coach you are not suppose to coach middle school.
If you are a middle school coach you can coach HS. Basically you can coach up one but not down. Supposedly this is for recruiting rules ?

[Frank]

Matofficial is correct, there are some Grey area with unpaid or ts positions.
But the WVSSAC find it better for kids to hang out on street corners or have little Johnnys dad with unknown background to coach instead of a Wvssac certificated couch to show interest in the offseason.

[Frank]

I'm little bitter about this subject

[Frank]

The rules are set up so the coaches and parents of athletes that want to be good have to cheat or spend money for camps, clubs, travel to get out of season training.

[Panther_coach]

Me too! I got turned in way back when for coaching my own son at a Christmas tournament by a coach bitten by the "can't beat Milton so let's screw the coaches kid" bug! He was in 7th grade and on my team. The bad part was Ken Chertow was actually coaching him when he had his Olympian school in Milton and I was just sitting in the corner. I admit I may have yelled a few instructions but hey, it was my own kid. I was not in the corner for anyone elses matches. The rival coach turned me in and it was a real hassle getting it straightened out. The guy even sent a photo to the WVSSAC. HE was there at the event with kids from his middle school team at the same time . . . SMH.

[mattman]

Me too! I got turned in way back when for coaching my own son at a Christmas tournament by a coach bitten by the "can't beat Milton so let's screw the coaches kid" bug! He was in 7th grade and on my team. The bad part was Ken Chertow was actually coaching him when he had his Olympian school in Milton and I was just sitting in the corner. I admit I may have yelled a few instructions but hey, it was my own kid. I was not in the corner for anyone elses matches. The rival coach turned me in and it was a real hassle getting it straightened out. The guy even sent a photo to the WVSSAC. HE was there at the event with kids from his middle school team at the same time . . . SMH.

That's pitiful coach

[P.H.D.]

I got a few question too... A high school wrestler in WV can wrestle in open tournaments during the season as long as he doesn't sign up under his school name or wear their singlet? His high school coach cannot coach him? Can he attend if not coaching? I'm asking...

[Panther_coach]

Not sure on this as it stands now but when I retired the wrestler also needed written permission from their principal and the event could not be on the same day as the school team either varsity or JV was competing. Example - the Milton Mudcats varsity is wrestling at Apache Wells high school but the JV team is idle. Harry Headlock on the JV team wants to attend the Milhouse Open tournament on the same day following all the criteria outlined above - Harry could not legally do so. But if the Varsity was also idle (not even practicing!) that day, Harry could headlock with reckless abandon. If ... he had written permission, registered as an individual or on a different team name that was not an SSAC member such as the Mud River Eels, His school coaches (none of them) did not coach him and did not wear any equipment owned by the school, singlet, headgear, etc. At least that is the way I remember it and how it was explained to me. Maybe someone more current can add any changes.

[Frank]

The reasons above, are also the reasons wrestling and other sports are shrinking in WVa. Don t just blame the play station and the singlet.

[dunbar76]

All sounds like a nightmare to me. From the looks of the high school results so far this year, either kids need more matches/practice(way too many pins) and or there are a lot of empty classes(not enough kids)(too many forfeits).

[aacoach109]

Im the AD at Warm Springs Middle and Im the Head Coach of Varsity Volleyball, Baseball and assistant wrestling at Berkeley Springs HS. Last year i personally called WVSSAC and clarified this rule. During season you can coach any age group. I started our county rec league for volleyball and run it during the season and its legal.

[aaacoach11]

Here is the rule. If you are a high school board approved coach then you can coach from 7th grade down anytime you want. If you are a board approved middle school coach you can coach from 4th grade down. You can't coach the grade directly below your level. I'm pretty confident this is how it works. The only exception is if you are coaching your own kid. Different counties and schools enforce as their principals see fit.

[aaacoach11]

As far as out of season coaching goes, there are some grey areas now that the ssac has approved the 6 flex practices out of season. Interesting story I'd like to share. I once had a wrestler at Flo nationals. I wasn't able to coach him in practice or at the tournament because it is illegal. My principals really enforce the rules as they should. Had I tried it, they would've suspended me for a few matches and self reported to the ssac. I paid for the web broadcast and was watching some of the other WV kids wrestle. I saw 2 other WV kids with their High School coaches sitting in the chair in April. One happened to be in the same county as I work. I never reported because I love the sport and knew that these coaches had the passion to grow the sport in WV.

[Bearhugger]

All of these rules for a sport where most kids just make weight and show up to collect a forfeit.

[Sally]

I might get bashed for this but here goes...

If you are an approved by the county, wvssac certified, background checked, and or teacher then coach kids as much as you can. No matter if it is during season or out of season. If you have kids who are truly wanting to compete out of season and will show up, coach them. I have coached in a county/school where we self regulate our programs to the point it hurts us. In the meantime neighboring schools are going year around and being coached by their head or assistant coaches.

So what?! I am with Frank on this topic. If you have good coaches who are willing to sacrifice their off season time to instruct a meaningful practice, take advantage of it. The ssac is a toothless organization that looks to fine coaches or schools for meaningless violations. But don't worry if you have questions regarding wrestling, they will put the work on Dr. Welker for answers. They will also be visible at the WV State Tournament to press the flesh, hand out trophies, and smile for photos.

Lets just hope the NFHS does not change the weight classes any time soon. It took the WVSSAC 1 extra year to get on board and award plaques with the proper weight classes. The wrestlers who placed top 6 in their class at the 2012 WV State Tournament never received the proper weight class awards.

And yes I do understand we have rules for a reason and many of them are necessary. Out of season coaching is one that has me scratching my head.

[coach_stump]

I was in recent contact with the WVSSAC regarding this issue of high school coaches coaching middle school/youth wrestlers and apparently the rules have some what changed and for the better. I was told that, YES, a HS coach could work with the middle school wrestlers from the same school (also youth of course) during the season but must separate practices, meaning you can't have them all in the same room at the same time. If a HS coach was working with the others, the coach should notify the BOE of that county of doing so for liability sake. Mr. Dolan also commented that if you have a question regarding this, please feel free to make contact with the SSAC office. Now, as far as out of season is entirely different issue that was not discussed.

[aaacoach11]

Coach Stump
That interpretation of the rule is surprising to me although I saw where you said it was new and had to be during separate times. Does this apply to every sport?

[Sally]

The WVSSAC office has been contacted before by myself several times. One instance was the Wednesday of the Super Six Championship Football weekend. The secretary let me know that everyone had already left for Wheeling. That's unfortunate considering at the time we had a question concerning proper weigh-in and alpha sheets for the opening weekend of wrestling season.

I contacted them this spring concerning USA Wrestling Clubs and Freestyle Wrestling being allowed out of season. That took a couple months to finally get some clarity. In the mean time Spring Wrestling Season was over.

Coaching out of season by a certified coach, I say Just Do It.

[mike.carman]

Keep in mind I do not agree with these rules at all, but, they have been put in place to level the playing field and control our athletes and coaches. I am not sure what that exactly means, but there you have it. In my opinion there is no such thing as a level playing field. That goes for life as well as sport, and any attempt to "level the playing field" causes failure ultimately. The same goes for the non-school sport participation clause. These two issues go hand in hand, especially in the individualized sports. I fail to understand why we try to hold kids back by forcing our athletes and coaches to abide by these ridiculous rules. Don't get me wrong, rules are important, but the rules need to make good sense and this is a case of over stepping. Just my opinion. Rant over.

[P.H.D.]

If you are satisfied with mediocrity then it's likely you will be in compliance, it's those darn people who strive for continual improvement that have no regard for the rules. I'm just glad airline pilots, fire fighters , etc aren't governed under the same concept.

[Frank]

Keep in mind I do not agree with these rules at all, but, they have been put in place to level the playing field and control our athletes and coaches. I am not sure what that exactly means, but there you have it. In my opinion there is no such thing as a level playing field. That goes for life as well as sport, and any attempt to "level the playing field" causes failure ultimately. The same goes for the non-school sport participation clause. These two issues go hand in hand, especially in the individualized sports. I fail to understand why we try to hold kids back by forcing our athletes and coaches to abide by these ridiculous rules. Don't get me wrong, rules are important, but the rules need to make good sense and this is a case of over stepping. Just my opinion. Rant over.

Mike is right
Failure of the public high school and middle school athletic system has already began. Prep school have always been and are now recruiting more athletes. Club sports team are on a huge rise. It won't be long until in season out of season club teams in all sports will be the way kids want to compete. We won t be complaining to the Wvssac, we will be complaining to USA wrestling or AAU. And high school coaches and backyard rivalries will be a thing of the past

[mike.carman]

If you are satisfied with mediocrity then it's likely you will be in compliance, it's those darn people who strive for continual improvement that have no regard for the rules. I'm just glad airline pilots, fire fighters , etc aren't governed under the same concept.

I love the fact that you brought up mediocrity. I have said for years now that I can't believe how the people of this state celebrate mediocrity. Great comment.

[coach_stump]

In response to aaacoach11, not sure if this a new ruling or not, but was new to me. The years I coached I was never allowed to coach middle school wrestlers and was enforced by our school administration.
I was told that practices had to be separated for sure. I'm sure that if it is permitted in wrestling then all other sports would have to be given the same right.