AA/A ranked wrestlers per region

[Lloyd Christmas]

Wrestlers with losing records making the state tournament is exactly why there should be just one class. The state is watered down enough

So only reason this can happen is because the region is weak vs a kid hitting their stride? Maybe healed up from injury? Maybe recovered from bad weight cuts? Can’t be wrestling really well, only a weak region?

That makes absolutely no sense

“Beware of the ringworm!”
— Lincoln McIlravy

Im sorry but I can’t name anyone that has placed at states with a losing record. Obviously it has to be a weak region because it’s not just one example it is several. Thanks!

[Kanedog]

8 champions form region IV out of 14 weight classes!

[Lloyd Christmas]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

[Lloyd Christmas]

8 champions form region IV out of 14 weight classes!

What are ya saying sir???

[wre157]

For reference, these garbage regions produced 11 of the 14 champions last year, with region III and region I each having 3 and region IV having 8.

What bums. I'm surprised they are even allowed to show their faces with those cake walks

"Beware of the ringworm!"
-- Spencer Lee

I’m not disagreeing that they have some great wrestlers. They just have no depth. 6 of the champs were from one school, Point Pleasant. It’s easier for teams in weaker regions to qualify more wrestlers than it is for region 1 teams. This is proven by the FACT that region 1 had the most ranked wrestlers and region 1 was the only region with with no wrestlers with a loser record to qualify.

Oak Glen beat Herbert Hoover 57-12. Oak Glen beat Braxton County 42-30. Oak Glen qualified 8 wrestlers while Herbert Hoover and Braxton County both qualified 11. You can’t argue that region 1 isn’t the toughest region.

Last year Herbert Hoover (Region 3) and Braxton County (Region 2) finished ahead of both Oak Glen (Region 1) and Berkley Springs (Region 1) in the State Tournament. So what's your point? It goes in cycles. What's your solution to "evening out" the regions? There's no doubt that Region 1 is a tough region, but posting the dual scores against teams from other regions doesn't prove anything.

My point is Herbert Hoover qualifies more wrestles than teams in Region 1 due to their weaker region, therefore giving them an opportunity to score more points at the state tournament.

[wre157]

8 champions form region IV out of 14 weight classes!

Last years State placers in AA/A:

Region 1: 31
Region 2: 17
Region 3: 18
Region 4: 18

[ringworm14]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

Josh Dearth.

Next question?

"Beware of the ringworm!"
-- Josh Dearth, 160 lb AAA placer 1998

[ringworm14]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

To go a little deeper:

Josh Dearth - park south (12-13) 6th, 1998

CJ Runion - Huntington (16-20) 6th, 2003

Zach Six - Oak Glen (22-34) 5th, 2005

Raymond Davis - Parkersburg (9-12) 6th, 2014

Danny Minihan - Huntington (18-21) 6th, 2015

“Watch out for the ringworm!”
Jonathan Delligatti

[armyscot0873]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

To go a little deeper:

Josh Dearth - park south (12-13) 6th, 1998

CJ Runion - Huntington (16-20) 6th, 2003

Zach Six - Oak Glen (22-34) 5th, 2005

Raymond Davis - Parkersburg (9-12) 6th, 2014

Danny Minihan - Huntington (18-21) 6th, 2015

“Watch out for the ringworm!”
Jonathan Delligatti

These are great examples. Look at the teams they wrestled for and look at the competition those teams face year after year. They are constantly wrestling out of state teams/tournaments (Powerade, Ironman, beast of the East, WSAZ, Winners Choice). Midland wrestled in 6 really tough tournaments this year. A kid could wrestle all weak competition and have a great record or wrestle tough competition and have a not great record but be better than other kids who wrestled weak competition. Iron sharpens Iron!!!

[aacoach117]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

Garrett Jordan from Cabell-Midland placed 6th in 2016. He entered the tournament with a 15-17 record. Defeated wrestlers with records of 33-11, 18-19, 30-14 and 27-18. His only loss was in the quarters to Jacob Simpson by a score of 3-0 who he turned around and defeated in the 5th place match by a score of 10-4.

In 2014 Raymond Davilla from Parkersburg placed 6th at 126. He finished 3rd at regions with a 6-9 record and finished 6th at states with a 9-12 record. In his first match at states he majored a wrestler 11-2 who had a 37-8 record. He also defeated wrestlers who had a record of 14-9 and 21-12.

All of these wrestlers, plus the others mentioned above, prove that assuming a wrestler's ability based on their record is silly. Not only did they place, they also defeated wrestlers that nearly everyone in this discussion would have assumed they would lose to.

[Doyablameme?]

AA interests me very very little

[wre157]

AA interests me very very little

Then why comment?

[Lloyd Christmas]

Can anyone name any state placer with a losing record??

To go a little deeper:

Josh Dearth - park south (12-13) 6th, 1998

CJ Runion - Huntington (16-20) 6th, 2003

Zach Six - Oak Glen (22-34) 5th, 2005

Raymond Davis - Parkersburg (9-12) 6th, 2014

Danny Minihan - Huntington (18-21) 6th, 2015

“Watch out for the ringworm!”
Jonathan Delligatti

Those all are examples from stud schools that wrestled stud schedules. I was referring to region 2,3 and 4 a/AA.

[KDunbar]

I’m not disagreeing that they have some great wrestlers. They just have no depth. 6 of the champs were from one school, Point Pleasant. It’s easier for teams in weaker regions to qualify more wrestlers than it is for region 1 teams. This is proven by the FACT that region 1 had the most ranked wrestlers and region 1 was the only region with with no wrestlers with a loser record to qualify.

Oak Glen beat Herbert Hoover 57-12. Oak Glen beat Braxton County 42-30. Oak Glen qualified 8 wrestlers while Herbert Hoover and Braxton County both qualified 11. You can’t argue that region 1 isn’t the toughest region.

I believe most people would agree with you that as far as depth, Region 1 AA/A year in and year out has a greater number of quality wrestlers. With that being the case, there are some individual wrestlers who don't get to make the trip to the state tournament that are considerably better than ones from other regions that do. Has always been that way (in a lot of things in sports) and always will be. However, that doesn't mean they would be scoring a lot of points at the tournament. Without placing, the maximum points a wrestler can possibly score is 7. So that's the only statement you can accurately make, "some wrestlers that are better than others don't make it to the tournament". When people start inferring that is the "reason" region 1 teams aren't winning state championships, then that is demeaning to the teams that did win. You also have to seperate whether you are talking AA championships versus A championships. Since one of my admirers on here also likes to deal in facts, I looked some up:
2022 AA #1 Point over #2 Fairmont Senior by 116.5 points
2021 AA #1 Point over #2 Fairmont Senior by 135.7 points
2020 AA #1 Point over #3 Fairmont Senior by 171 points
2019 AA #1 Point over #3 Fairmont Senior by 88.5 points
2018 AA #1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 51 points
2017 AA #1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 153.5 points
2016 AA # 1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 132 points
At this point I grew tired of finding out the same thing year after year. It wasn't the number of wrestlers being qualified, it was the quality. For most of these years you could take the top 2 teams from region 1 and combine them and still not win the State championship. The exception was 2018 where East Fairmont and Madonna combined would have nipped Independence. That was a great State tournament with Independence sending 14 and placing 13 and East Fairmont sending 12 and placing 10 (with 4 champs).

Now in Single A it gets a little trickier. Here I do agree that it is a little tougher to determine the "true" single A champion when the AA schools are thrown in to the mix. However, it's not just a Region 1 thing. For most years it probably isn't an issue, but when the scores are close then having a true single A tournament would be better. But for multiple reasons (cost likely being the major one) that is not likely going to happen and splitting things into 4 classifications wouldn't make this any clearer. Over the same 7 year span as above (2016-2022) in single A, 2017 had a difference of only 10 points between #1 (with 8 wrestlers) and #2 (with 2 wrestlers) and 2021 only 1/2 point between #1 (with 6 wrestlers) and #2 (with 5 wrestlers). The single A challenge may help make things a little clearer if all the top teams will attend every year and may unfortunately be a better measure of these teams on a tournament basis than the state tournament itself. I'm guessing that was the reason it came about. I suggest giving a really big trophy for that tournament. Look at the 2017 results in both tournaments of the top 4 teams in each. But it doesn't appear to have much to do with Region 1 having the most depth on average.

So let's just stick with saying that it's tougher to get to the State tournament as an individual wrestler in Region 1 AA/A than for some of the regions and leave it at that. Then we can have this same discussion all over again next year. But it's enjoyable having a walk down memory lane. I'm sure Gator would have liked it.

Please check the differences between 2nd and 3rd. That is a big deal too. 2nd - 5th is often between twenty points. Getting 2nd equals hardware third does not. That is a big deal for schools that aren’t a perennial powerhouses. There have been years where region one athletes did not qualify but beat state placers or guys that scores 6-7 points. Thanks

Thank you for respectfully asking. But now you're just creating more work than I'm willing to do. The initial idea was about being able to win team championships. Obviously the closer the teams scores are, the more important every team point is. I did look at what individuals from teams score when they don't place, and although occasionally the fifth best from a region might sneak in for a 5th or 6th place (unless they wrestle better than expected, which can happen) it doesn't add up to a whole lot of points. Having followed a team that has always been in the toughest region year in and year out i do understand the "unfairness" of the situation for the individual wrestler.

[KDunbar]

2016 Roane was runner-up to Indy 131 pts. You can look at the accumulative if you go to home page state tourny results

I apologize, my mistake. I was thinking Roane was small enough to be in single A and therefore listed East Rairmont as #2. In any case the scores of the two are close and Roane is not from Region 1. However, thank you for pointing that out so credit is given where it is due.

[KDunbar]

Wrestlers with losing records making the state tournament is exactly why there should be just one class. The state is watered down enough

We might have found an area where we are close to being in agreement. Although 2 bigger regions and sending eight from each might be a better fix than combining AAA with AA/A.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Wrestlers with losing records making the state tournament is exactly why there should be just one class. The state is watered down enough

We might have found an area where we are close to being in agreement. Although 2 bigger regions and sending eight from each might be a better fix than combining AAA with AA/A.

Without combining there would be 64 participants. Combining would keep the same state tourney participants. But it would place top 8 and crown A, AA, and AAA team champions

[KDunbar]

I’m not disagreeing that they have some great wrestlers. They just have no depth. 6 of the champs were from one school, Point Pleasant. It’s easier for teams in weaker regions to qualify more wrestlers than it is for region 1 teams. This is proven by the FACT that region 1 had the most ranked wrestlers and region 1 was the only region with with no wrestlers with a loser record to qualify.

Oak Glen beat Herbert Hoover 57-12. Oak Glen beat Braxton County 42-30. Oak Glen qualified 8 wrestlers while Herbert Hoover and Braxton County both qualified 11. You can’t argue that region 1 isn’t the toughest region.

I believe most people would agree with you that as far as depth, Region 1 AA/A year in and year out has a greater number of quality wrestlers. With that being the case, there are some individual wrestlers who don't get to make the trip to the state tournament that are considerably better than ones from other regions that do. Has always been that way (in a lot of things in sports) and always will be. However, that doesn't mean they would be scoring a lot of points at the tournament. Without placing, the maximum points a wrestler can possibly score is 7. So that's the only statement you can accurately make, "some wrestlers that are better than others don't make it to the tournament". When people start inferring that is the "reason" region 1 teams aren't winning state championships, then that is demeaning to the teams that did win. You also have to seperate whether you are talking AA championships versus A championships. Since one of my admirers on here also likes to deal in facts, I looked some up:
2022 AA #1 Point over #2 Fairmont Senior by 116.5 points
2021 AA #1 Point over #2 Fairmont Senior by 135.7 points
2020 AA #1 Point over #3 Fairmont Senior by 171 points
2019 AA #1 Point over #3 Fairmont Senior by 88.5 points
2018 AA #1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 51 points
2017 AA #1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 153.5 points
2016 AA # 1 Independence over #2 East Fairmont by 132 points
At this point I grew tired of finding out the same thing year after year. It wasn't the number of wrestlers being qualified, it was the quality. For most of these years you could take the top 2 teams from region 1 and combine them and still not win the State championship. The exception was 2018 where East Fairmont and Madonna combined would have nipped Independence. That was a great State tournament with Independence sending 14 and placing 13 and East Fairmont sending 12 and placing 10 (with 4 champs).

Now in Single A it gets a little trickier. Here I do agree that it is a little tougher to determine the "true" single A champion when the AA schools are thrown in to the mix. However, it's not just a Region 1 thing. For most years it probably isn't an issue, but when the scores are close then having a true single A tournament would be better. But for multiple reasons (cost likely being the major one) that is not likely going to happen and splitting things into 4 classifications wouldn't make this any clearer. Over the same 7 year span as above (2016-2022) in single A, 2017 had a difference of only 10 points between #1 (with 8 wrestlers) and #2 (with 2 wrestlers) and 2021 only 1/2 point between #1 (with 6 wrestlers) and #2 (with 5 wrestlers). The single A challenge may help make things a little clearer if all the top teams will attend every year and may unfortunately be a better measure of these teams on a tournament basis than the state tournament itself. I'm guessing that was the reason it came about. I suggest giving a really big trophy for that tournament. Look at the 2017 results in both tournaments of the top 4 teams in each. But it doesn't appear to have much to do with Region 1 having the most depth on average.

So let's just stick with saying that it's tougher to get to the State tournament as an individual wrestler in Region 1 AA/A than for some of the regions and leave it at that. Then we can have this same discussion all over again next year. But it's enjoyable having a walk down memory lane. I'm sure Gator would have liked it.

So you don’t think that individuals making the state tourney out of region one would score any points. Obviously is wrestlers an and b score 15 total points the team would have 15 more points. I’m not real sure where your logic is that would explain it being harder to make it as an individual but not harder as a team

I'm sorry, but you have a tendency to say that I am saying things that I have not said. I said that an individual who might have been the fifth best wrestler in their region could score a maximum of 7 points in the State tournament, without placing. Now if they are, in theory based on rankings, the 5th best wrestler in the state they might finish 5th or 6th. The point is this would be the extremely rare occurence. So what I said was that the actual number of points these wrestlers would be scoring in total would be small in comparison to the differences that have been occurring between the AA #1 and #2 teams. As I went on to say, the point differences in single A have been, on occasion, much closer. So I do think that these individuals out of region 1 might score points and already said so. Therein lies my logic. Finally, I'm sorry but I really don't know what your last sentence even means.

[Lloyd Christmas]

The whole point that a/aa region one is much tougher to qualify for the state tournament. I have seen no argument that disputes this.

[KDunbar]

Wrestlers with losing records making the state tournament is exactly why there should be just one class. The state is watered down enough

We might have found an area where we are close to being in agreement. Although 2 bigger regions and sending eight from each might be a better fix than combining AAA with AA/A.

Without combining there would be 64 participants. Combining would keep the same state tourney participants. But it would place top 8 and crown A, AA, and AAA team champions

Although this is a waste of time, because none of the changes either of us are talking about would remotely be considered (and I'm not really in favor of either), I'll continue since we are having a civil conversation. I'm not sure whether you are meaning combining regions or combining classifications. Combining regions into 2 in both AAA and AA/A and sending the top eight from each region would keep the state tournament the same (although they would have to come up with different pills, just kidding). However, if the supposition that you and others are suggesting regarding wrestlers with losing records is correct, the same individuals would not be going since the "lesser" wrestlers from the "weaker" regions would be repaced by the "better" wrestlers fom the "stronger" regions, if this really exists. Here it would be decided by head to head competition and not assumed by their won-loss percentages.

[Lloyd Christmas]

I mean combine a aa and aaa into one class. Everything else we are talking past each other

[KDunbar]

Well, right now there are 16 wrestlers in AAA and 16 wrestlers in AA/A or 32 combined total. How would you set up regional competition and how many from each region. Surely not keeping the current regions and combining them at the state tournament (which would give 32 per weight class). That would not improve anything. I believe you mentioned 64 per weight class, which I personally think is too large. I believe that the largest weight class in the state has less than 78 wrestlers in it total, all 3 classes combined. If the same geographic region set up is kept I believe we would be right back where we started from.

[KDunbar]

The whole point that a/aa region one is much tougher to qualify for the state tournament. I have seen no argument that disputes this.

Well, this is not the whole point that I or I believe others have been talking about from the beginning. The whole point is the original statement, "This hurts the top Region 1 teams chances at a state title".

[Lloyd Christmas]

The whole point that a/aa region one is much tougher to qualify for the state tournament. I have seen no argument that disputes this.

Well, this is not the whole point that I or I believe others have been talking about from the beginning. The whole point is the original statement, "This hurts the top Region 1 teams chances at a state title".

Well it can’t help a region one team win a state title if it is harder to qualify wrestlers.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Heck region 1 had a ranked returning state placer not make the state tourney this year. Obviously he would have won some matches had he won in the blood round. It is not always a blowout from 1st and 2nd place. Wrestle back points often can make or break a tournament winning team.

[Bearhug]

Heck region 1 had a ranked returning state placer not make the state tourney this year. Obviously he would have won some matches had he won in the blood round. It is not always a blowout from 1st and 2nd place. Wrestle back points often can make or break a tournament winning team.

Facts

[aacoach117]

The whole point that a/aa region one is much tougher to qualify for the state tournament. I have seen no argument that disputes this.

Actually I believe the point was to imply that wrestlers from R2, R3 and R4 are not as worthy of being at states as R1 wrestlers. That is the way it came off anyway.

Heck region 1 had a ranked returning state placer not make the state tourney this year. Obviously he would have won some matches had he won in the blood round. It is not always a blowout from 1st and 2nd place. Wrestle back points often can make or break a tournament winning team.

Because he was a placer last year does not mean he has a right to be there this year.

[Bearhug]

The whole point that a/aa region one is much tougher to qualify for the state tournament. I have seen no argument that disputes this.

Actually I believe the point was to imply that wrestlers from R2, R3 and R4 are not as worthy of being at states as R1 wrestlers. That is the way it came off anyway.

Heck region 1 had a ranked returning state placer not make the state tourney this year. Obviously he would have won some matches had he won in the blood round. It is not always a blowout from 1st and 2nd place. Wrestle back points often can make or break a tournament winning team.

Because he was a placer last year does not mean he has a right to be there this year.

"Actually I believe the point was to imply that wrestlers from R2, R3 and R4 are not as worthy of being at states as R1 wrestlers."

No one said wrestlers from R2-4 weren't worthy? The post was pointing out how one region is more unbalanced than the other 3.

[aacoach160]

I’m not disagreeing that they have some great wrestlers. They just have no depth. 6 of the champs were from one school, Point Pleasant. It’s easier for teams in weaker regions to qualify more wrestlers than it is for region 1 teams. This is proven by the FACT that region 1 had the most ranked wrestlers and region 1 was the only region with with no wrestlers with a loser record to qualify.

Oak Glen beat Herbert Hoover 57-12. Oak Glen beat Braxton County 42-30. Oak Glen qualified 8 wrestlers while Herbert Hoover and Braxton County both qualified 11. You can’t argue that region 1 isn’t the toughest region.

Last year Herbert Hoover (Region 3) and Braxton County (Region 2) finished ahead of both Oak Glen (Region 1) and Berkley Springs (Region 1) in the State Tournament. So what's your point? It goes in cycles. What's your solution to "evening out" the regions? There's no doubt that Region 1 is a tough region, but posting the dual scores against teams from other regions doesn't prove anything.

My point is Herbert Hoover qualifies more wrestles than teams in Region 1 due to their weaker region, therefore giving them an opportunity to score more points at the state tournament.

You only addressed one part of my response. What is the solution to your problem? I say "your problem" because you seem to be the one that has an issue with having to wrestle out of region 1. As Spencer Lee would say, "Excuses are for wusses."

[Whitlock]

How about having other criteria to qualify like they do in college not just the regional tournament