Clarion Open

[JoeGiovengo]

I watched many matches of the Clarion Open today. It was a long day but worth the time. Just some quick thoughts on WVU and how they looked today.

I thought overall the team looked average and performed just like most thought they would. The lower weights have talent and will be good in time. The main thing there is depth and WVU has it. Lautzenheiser impressed me. He wrestled hard and showed me something today. TItus is skilled and going to be a good one. It looks to me like he is just a little physically immature and needs a redshirt year and to learn how to be a "College" wrestler.

I thought Boyd did a nice job today and showed he can be capable if put in the starting spot. Roberts I thought had an up and down day looking really good at times and a little slow and sluggish at others. Dowling looked really good to me and I think is the best option moving forward at 157. He needs mat time and will get better as the year goes on. Hall did what people expected and looked good. He wrestled smart and was never really in trouble of losing the whole day.

Now the upper weights. Of the 174 and above wrestlers, the only one that I thought looked good was Carman. He looked in good shape and wrestled well. There is little depth at the upper weights and its going to be a long year for them.

Gotta get some of the other guys healthy and back on the mat. The competition in the practice room is where these young guys will get better.

[Bearhugger]

I watched many matches of the Clarion Open today. It was a long day but worth the time. Just some quick thoughts on WVU and how they looked today.

I thought overall the team looked average and performed just like most thought they would. The lower weights have talent and will be good in time. The main thing there is depth and WVU has it. Lautzenheiser impressed me. He wrestled hard and showed me something today. TItus is skilled and going to be a good one. It looks to me like he is just a little physically immature and needs a redshirt year and to learn how to be a "College" wrestler.

I thought Boyd did a nice job today and showed he can be capable if put in the starting spot. Roberts I thought had an up and down day looking really good at times and a little slow and sluggish at others. Dowling looked really good to me and I think is the best option moving forward at 157. He needs mat time and will get better as the year goes on. Hall did what people expected and looked good. He wrestled smart and was never really in trouble of losing the whole day.

Now the upper weights. Of the 174 and above wrestlers, the only one that I thought looked good was Carman. He looked in good shape and wrestled well. There is little depth at the upper weights and its going to be a long year for them.

Gotta get some of the other guys healthy and back on the mat. The competition in the practice room is where these young guys will get better.

To expand on Carmen, he lost a match by 2 points to the guy that went on and won the whole thing. At this time, 5th place was the best Carmen could do. However, he had to accept 6th place because he had already reached his 6 match per day limit. Maybe Carmen at 184 is one we need to watch to hopefully qualify for the NCAA.

[Pottstd]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

[Pottstd]

Also, to add some good news, WVU managed to take 2nd overall as a team. Finishing just behind Navy and just ahead of Pitt. I know Pitt was down a few wrestlers (for instance Bonaccorsi was out of the country at U23s). However, it is always good to finish ahead of Pitt!

[Doyablameme?]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Curious ... what does it mean to wrestle “ neutrally” ?

[Diamond]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Curious ... what does it mean to wrestle “ neutrally” ?

They were on their feet the entire time…?

[Doyablameme?]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Curious ... what does it mean to wrestle “ neutrally” ?

They were on their feet the entire time…?

Oh ok .. makes sense

[Bearhugger]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Your commentary is being used as a launch pad for mine. This is not directed AT YOU. A few weeks ago, some folks predicted WVU had one of their best teams. Now after the first competition, reality has set in. WVU has Peyton Hall. He is the man that will keep me interested in WVU wrestling this season and we need to hope he stays healthy. After this season, we hope WVU's program and resources can provide him enough to continue to improve. My initial observations for the past 6-7 seasons is wrestlers simply do not get better at WVU from year to year. That will be another discussion.

Young team, having a group of wrestlers that didn't get a full season last year, etc, etc. I never thought of that. I never considered that a factor. WVU's wrestlers had the same season last year as all the other teams.

Now let's focus on John Martin Best. I like Best and I like Hall. The following is not intended to make one look better than the other. To my knowledge, JMB didn't wrestle a match last season. JMB is now on his second school/second program. JMB lost 3-1 to NCAA qualifier and preseason Flo #14 ranked Hall. JMB got the BEST of Hall twice when they were seniors. On the other hand, Hall of course took the win at Clarion. Furthermore, I watched a few of JMB's matches and he has clearly improved since high school. WVU had two chances at JMB and whatever their BEST offer was, it wasn't good enough. JMB is a young wrestler, 2 different teams and coaches already and no matches last season. WVU wrestlers that are on their second, third or 4th seasons in Morgantown are not dealing with the challenges JMB has obviously blown through. Nobody ever mentions Maryland's wrestling program either.

Rumors fly. What is true, what is false, what is partially true but blown out of proportion? The rumors are the same each season and only the names change. The ongoing rumor is WVU has its party animals. Wrestlers that care more about partying than wrestling. If you hear that Hank Gates, WVU wrestler is a hard core partier, it might not be true. However, when you see Hank get his a$$ handed to him at the Clarion Open, then the rumor might start making sense. After being at WVU for 1-2 seasons, when Hank gets beat out in wrestle offs by an incoming freshman or 2nd year guy, then we have to wonder what is up with Hank. Why isn't Hank getting better as he gains more seasons at WVU? WVU has a few guys that have been around too long to look too bad.

Why didn't WVU give local Austin Chapman an ounce of attention?

[Pottstd]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Curious ... what does it mean to wrestle “ neutrally” ?

While I understand the consideration with this being about wrestling, I did not mean on their feet/in the neutral position. In fact what I meant was that they had an average or as expected (at least my expectations) day of wrestling in terms of how they looked, wins-loses, etc.

[Pottstd]

I was able to watch on and off, and feel very similar. Overall, WVU seemed to preform very neutrally throughout the day. There were a few bright spots (Carmen, Hall, Lautzenheiser, etc.). There was also a lot of wrestlers that had up and down days (Wolfgram, Roberts, Boyd, and others). Overall I think the take aways are that WVU is going to struggle this year, particularly in duels, since they have a number of weights with little depth. Take into consideration there also seems to be some injury/illness issues in a few spots it may make for a longer "regular season", but hopefully everyone can be healthy and ready to go by Championship season.

Second, they wrestled like a very young team. A key for them will be continuing to develop over the season. Wrestlers like Wolfgram, Boyd, Dowling, Carmen, and even Hall have yet to get a real, regular season of wrestling in and will be obviously be the pivot points on how we think this season turns out. The only known commodities WVU has are Cardinale at 125 and Hall at 165 (to a degree). A lot of question marks, and at least some of those question marks have to start turning the corner for the team.

Your commentary is being used as a launch pad for mine. This is not directed AT YOU. A few weeks ago, some folks predicted WVU had one of their best teams. Now after the first competition, reality has set in. WVU has Peyton Hall. He is the man that will keep me interested in WVU wrestling this season and we need to hope he stays healthy. After this season, we hope WVU's program and resources can provide him enough to continue to improve. My initial observations for the past 6-7 seasons is wrestlers simply do not get better at WVU from year to year. That will be another discussion.

Young team, having a group of wrestlers that didn't get a full season last year, etc, etc. I never thought of that. I never considered that a factor. WVU's wrestlers had the same season last year as all the other teams.

Now let's focus on John Martin Best. I like Best and I like Hall. The following is not intended to make one look better than the other. To my knowledge, JMB didn't wrestle a match last season. JMB is now on his second school/second program. JMB lost 3-1 to NCAA qualifier and preseason Flo #14 ranked Hall. JMB got the BEST of Hall twice when they were seniors. On the other hand, Hall of course took the win at Clarion. Furthermore, I watched a few of JMB's matches and he has clearly improved since high school. WVU had two chances at JMB and whatever their BEST offer was, it wasn't good enough. JMB is a young wrestler, 2 different teams and coaches already and no matches last season. WVU wrestlers that are on their second, third or 4th seasons in Morgantown are not dealing with the challenges JMB has obviously blown through. Nobody ever mentions Maryland's wrestling program either.

Rumors fly. What is true, what is false, what is partially true but blown out of proportion? The rumors are the same each season and only the names change. The ongoing rumor is WVU has its party animals. Wrestlers that care more about partying than wrestling. If you hear that Hank Gates, WVU wrestler is a hard core partier, it might not be true. However, when you see Hank get his a$$ handed to him at the Clarion Open, then the rumor might start making sense. After being at WVU for 1-2 seasons, when Hank gets beat out in wrestle offs by an incoming freshman or 2nd year guy, then we have to wonder what is up with Hank. Why isn't Hank getting better as he gains more seasons at WVU? WVU has a few guys that have been around too long to look too bad.

Why didn't WVU give local Austin Chapman an ounce of attention?

No offense taken, we're just talking here. Feel free to direct anything you would like at me in the future

I will admit I want to think the best of WVU. Not only because they are my home state team, but because I do really like Coach Flynn. Thus, my opinions probably tend to err on the side of optimism. I will agree w/ your concerns of limited growth by alot of WVU wrestlers. I would say its been apparent in some of them (Adams is the first that comes to mind). With limited sample you could say Hall has improved (he lost to Best previously and has now beaten him). Similarly Carman may be in this group as he has shown improvement. However, there seems to be stagnation at WVU in alot of weights. Not that kids are getting worse or not improving some, but you dont see people jump levels like you do at some schools. This is going to be what needs to happen. Wolfgram is going to need to jump levels to get into AA contention, he is a recruit you would expect this of. Hopefully Titus is one that will do this. I know not every recruit is going to work out, but WVU has not had a great track record of developing/keeping talent.

[P.H.D.]

[mscoach57]

Looking at the team scores we beat Penn State, Pitt, Maryland! That alone should get us some high level recruits! I agree with Diamond’s eye roll emoji The WVU team was great this weekend and some of our fans are just too critical of what was clearly an excellent performance.

I hate that we lost to Navy. If we had Cardinale and Karam we would have won for sure. Navy’s coach Kolat was a front runner for the wvu job and Shane Lyons chose Coach Flynn. I’m sure some of the naysayers may have something to say about that but not me! I am celebrating our win over 2 big ten and 1 ACC teams.

[Pottstd]

I think that is a bit of an unfair assessment of the discussion here. Many people have discussed several highlights on WVU's team. I also mentioned WVU's 2nd place finish. I am also a Flynn fan and am in no way saying that WVU should consider a coaching change, that I or anyone else could do a better job, or that some of WVU's problems are even Coach Flynn's fault.

I think people are expressing some legitimate concerns that have plagued WVU through multiple coaches. Transfers, limited improvements, etc. I also think a lot of this is due to the lack of information and openess from the program (which is common for colleges in general, but is easier to accept when there is great success (think Penn St.)). For instance we know Sullivan (a real bright spot for WVU last year) is no longer on the team, he hasnt surfaced elsewhere (at least that I know of) but we have no clue what actually happened. I know there is privacy rights and concerns over these young men, but it does create frustration. Similarly with Karam, good transfer, hasnt been at wrestle offs or the Open ... is he hurt, not coming in until second semester? We just have no answers and I think is shows itself in frustration and maybe more negative questions than would otherwise come through.

[Bearhugger]

I think that is a bit of an unfair assessment of the discussion here. Many people have discussed several highlights on WVU's team. I also mentioned WVU's 2nd place finish. I am also a Flynn fan and am in no way saying that WVU should consider a coaching change, that I or anyone else could do a better job, or that some of WVU's problems are even Coach Flynn's fault.

I think people are expressing some legitimate concerns that have plagued WVU through multiple coaches. Transfers, limited improvements, etc. I also think a lot of this is due to the lack of information and openess from the program (which is common for colleges in general, but is easier to accept when there is great success (think Penn St.)). For instance we know Sullivan (a real bright spot for WVU last year) is no longer on the team, he hasnt surfaced elsewhere (at least that I know of) but we have no clue what actually happened. I know there is privacy rights and concerns over these young men, but it does create frustration. Similarly with Karam, good transfer, hasnt been at wrestle offs or the Open ... is he hurt, not coming in until second semester? We just have no answers and I think is shows itself in frustration and maybe more negative questions than would otherwise come through.

When WVU posts about picking up Karam from Lehigh and some organization runs out and declares Karam a starter, then the fans want to know why the gentleman isn't on the mat. Some might view these as negative questions. I see them as good, solid questions.

Regarding lack of communication and openess. I think WVU is struggling big time in this area. Before, I provide examples, I will say that I am not sure if the communication comes from the wrestling coaching staff mainly or the marketing department runs off half cocked.

A few years ago, but during Flynn's time, WVU used Hunter DeLong as the poster child to advertise WVU vs Ohio U's match in Parkersburg. DeLong was from Parkersburg. He wasn't varsity, he didn't get to wrestle and he wasn't even taken along by the team. This marketing decision does not reflect a top notch program in my opinion. Years later, WVU doesn't have a top notch program. My opinion is not needed for that. Solution: Do not use NON-Varsity wrestlers to market the team. Perhaps let a Parkersburg wrestler wrestle the next time you wrestle in Parkersburg. It will help with fan enthusiasm and getting area wrestlers to walk on the team. Rumor fueled follow up. This past summer, WVU had a clinic. The question was raised why no wrestlers from Parkersburg attended.

Just recently, WVU posted their schedule. Four wrestlers' faces were used as backgrounds for the schedule board. Two out of the four wrestlers got beat in wrestle offs. Maybe the wrong wrestlers were used for the graphics. Soon after wrestle offs, a new schedule was made public. I am sure it was because of the addition of the Glenville match. However, the graphics also changed. Solution: Perhaps use previous NCAA qualifiers only as the faces of the team until wrestle offs happen. If I was observing daily wrestling practices and Hank Gates was getting all he could handle by Frank Williams, then I would hold off on using Hank as a face of the team.

I have heard rumors of many wrestlers at Lehigh doing stuff they shouldn't. If I recruited a wrestler from said program, I would keep it low key until he got on board.

Rumors fly. Results happen. Negative results collaborate negative rumors. Positive results invalidate negative rumors. For example: if the rumors are Hank Gates is a party animal and Hank doesn't make weight, gasses out in matches and doesn't perform well, then the rumors are becoming validated. It doesn't mean they are true, but there needs to be evidence that the rumors are false.

[Bearhugger]

Looking at the team scores we beat Penn State, Pitt, Maryland! That alone should get us some high level recruits! I agree with Diamond’s eye roll emoji The WVU team was great this weekend and some of our fans are just too critical of what was clearly an excellent performance.

I hate that we lost to Navy. If we had Cardinale and Karam we would have won for sure. Navy’s coach Kolat was a front runner for the wvu job and Shane Lyons chose Coach Flynn. I’m sure some of the naysayers may have something to say about that but not me! I am celebrating our win over 2 big ten and 1 ACC teams.

Your commentary regarding Kolat reminds me of something I have been thinking about for some time. If WVU wants to win, then they need to do EVERYTHING to improve their chances of recruiting, signing and keeping the best wrestlers they can get. To do this, WVU needs to offer something to make these top wrestlers want to come to WVU.

I am sure wrestlers and their families consider many factors. However, top notch winning high school wrestlers want to continue to be top notch, winning wrestlers when they compete in college.

A new, fancy weight room is great. But 40lb dumbbells are present everywhere. New singlets look chic. Stanford had an NCAA champion win in solid black while wondering if he had a home for next season.

Oklahoma States has a winning tradition. They had NCAA champions last season. Even when they are down, an incoming freshman can say "I am going to Oklahoma State". His critics could say "why are you going there?". The wrestler says "to wrestle under John Smith".

WVU doesn't have a winning tradition. WVU doesn't have returning NCAA champions this season or anytime during the current and previous coach's periods.

If WVU wants to win, they need a big name coach. A big name that will overshadow the lack of team success. A big name that will attract big name wrestlers. When people ask a given wrestler "WTF are you going to WVU for?", the wrestler can say "I am going to go wrestle for Kyle Dake, Jordan Burroughs, Bo Nickel, Tank Abbott, etc". Kolat might have been that name.

[Bearhugger]

Looking at the team scores we beat Penn State, Pitt, Maryland! That alone should get us some high level recruits! I agree with Diamond’s eye roll emoji The WVU team was great this weekend and some of our fans are just too critical of what was clearly an excellent performance.

I hate that we lost to Navy. If we had Cardinale and Karam we would have won for sure. Navy’s coach Kolat was a front runner for the wvu job and Shane Lyons chose Coach Flynn. I’m sure some of the naysayers may have something to say about that but not me! I am celebrating our win over 2 big ten and 1 ACC teams.

I understand that many to possibly all teams competing in the Clarion Open did not have their full varsity line up in place. Navy hired Kolat while WVU passed on him.

I find it ironic that Navy beat out WVU in the team standings.

[mscoach57]

Clarion Open Nov 7
Samuel Mitchell from Buffalo beat Jackson Moomau from WVU 4-0
Samuel Mitchell from Buffalo beat Nate Wickersham from WVU 6-1
Buffalo Wisconsin Dual Nov 1
Braxton Amos from Wisconsin beat Samuel Mitchell from Buffalo 8-2

Are we still sure Coach Flynn is making good recruiting decisions?
We missed on Braxton big time. We missed on Chapman. We missed on Best. We missed on Lanham. We missed on Humphreys big time.

All of these guys have good grades. Using the promise scholarship and academic money WVU could have loaded all 5 of them onto the roster for probably less then 2.5 scholarships and all of them would have had a full ride. Instead we went the transfer portal route to recruit over the instate wrestlers in the lineup. None of these 5 WV guys have left their team for legal, psychological, academic or social reasons. Where are Sullivan and Karam? How is Coach Flynn's promise of new and improved culture panning out?

149 Roberts vs 149 Karam Forfeit Karam has scaramed 6-0
157 Humphreys vs 157 Dowling Pin or injury default Josh is nasty on top 12-0
165 Hall vs 165 Hall Dec Hall would improve with these new guys in the room pushing him 15-0
174 Best vs 174 Joll Maj Dec Maryland got the Best recruit 19-0
184 Carman vs 184 Carman Dec Carman would improve with these new guys in the room pushing him 22-0
197 Amos/Lanham vs Moomau Watch Braxton in a interview, Flynn hurt his feelings. He puts on a show tech fall 27-0
285 Chapman vs Wolfgram Wolfgram won in overtime but I am not sure he does if Chapman's partners are Amos and Lanham 27-3

[Matofficial]

With respect to Kolat I don’t believe he was even considered. I spoke with him on the phone and he was very interested in the job. He made that known. Not sure he did when Sammie got the job but pretty sure he was. Another top notch coach and recruiter was Lehighs John Hughes. I do know he made it known and he was not interviewed either time. I am not making any derogatory statements regarding WVUs current staff just facts.

[Matofficial]

Regarding WVU’s improvements it is my opinion that when you place at big tournaments like Powerade, Ironman, Fargo etc you have plenty of talent to wrestle at WVU. In recent years WV has had placers but not recruited. With respect to our program at Parkersburg South before Covid we had a lot of the best coaches in the country come to our wrestling room to meet and speak with wrestlers and coaches. That list includes Cael Sanderson, Pat Santoro and John Smith. I am usually coaching at most of the bigger tournaments and have never been approached or spoken to from a WVU coach. I would think it would be a good recruiting move to at least speak to the head coach! Ending on a positive note the biggest improvement at WVU in my opinion has been the has been their media department. A true WV person doing a great job against a lot of negativity.