wvmat.com

Image if you will
Principles pay being based on the number of staf and teachers he/she has working for them.
Teachers pay being based on the number of students they teach in a year.
Althletic directors pay being based on the number of coaches and programs under thier charge.
Coaches pay being based on numbers of athletes and their success. Or just being paid.

Imagine if
Principles and teacher earned bonuses when one of the students earned an academic scholarship.
Principles,ADs,and coaches earned a bonus when one of their athletes earned a athletic scholarship.

I know when I do my job I get paid.
But when I excel in my job I get paid better.
And if I don't do my job I get fired.

I like the way you guys think

Image if all of WVa schools were open enrollment.
In order for principals to earn the most they would have to attract the best teacher and coaches. Have the best facilities. Hire the best cooks and janitors. Which, in theory, would attract the most students.

Frank wrote:Image if all of WVa schools were open enrollment.
In order for principals to earn the most they would have to attract the best teacher and coaches. Have the best facilities. Hire the best cooks and janitors. Which, in theory, would attract the most students.

Wait a minute. You mean have competition? That sounds dangerously like a free market type approach. What about keeping the playing field level? I like it! Makes too much sense. It will never be taken seriously.

I was told by a principal that a school get so many thousands of dollars added to their yearly budget per student enrolled in there school by the state of West Virginia.

Wow what a Eutopian society. Would you bring back the Jim Crow laws also? You do understand that most people in WV are on or under the poverty level and can't just pick up and move.

aacoach17 wrote:Wow what a Eutopian society. Would you bring back the Jim Crow laws also? You do understand that most people in WV are on or under the poverty level and can't just pick up and move.

I really must be a moron. I don t understand your reasoning .
But okay it's a thought

Maybe that was sarcasm

Imagine living in wood county and your child wanted to excel in Spanish. And south had the best Spanish teacher in the country. ???? Just saying. It might be worth sending your child there to chase their dreams.

Frank wrote:Imagine living in wood county and your child wanted to excel in Spanish. And south had the best Spanish teacher in the country. ???? Just saying. It might be worth sending your child there to chase their dreams.

El Creamo rises to the top.

Amamos al sur

Of if you were a principal of a newer school in Lincoln co where the population is dwindling. If your pay check relied on it why wouldn't you use your facilities and your staff to attract students from surrounding countries to your school. The state adds cash to your school budget. You maintain about staff. You maintain your salary. Just brag on and promote your teachers success and your athletic success and of course keep your school looking good. It's a win win situation

Ah Frank those who think profits from others hard work should be given to those who do not work will not like your idea.

Just for Ss and Gs. Don't worry about where the money would come from.
But say .
When a student received an academic scholarship, the academic advicer received a $500 dollar bonus and the students teachers all received a $100 bonus. If a senior class had ten students receive scholarships that's a nice bonus to the staff for doing a good job. And it would be a very good motivation to help even more students earn scholarships the following year. Who wouldn't want to reep what they sowed.

Parents start seeing several seniors from a area high school get a free ride to college. They can start to justifying enrolling there student in said high school. It's worth the drive. Marshall university is roughly 16,000.00 a year. If I have to drive an extra 20 mins a couple of year to save that kinda money, I'm in.

Me as a principal , should take note of said high schools success and start thinking if I don't want all my college bound students to transfer to said high school. I better start making my high school better or start losing student population and personal income.

Frank,
I apologize for my earlier post. It is just very difficult to take when the odds are stacked against you. For example, you use Lincoln Co. There are no businesses in Lincoln Co. to draw the parents. Even if they had the most spectacular school system with all the "cream and fixings", your average West Virginian would not be able to move there for their child. There is no work for them. The biggest employer in Lincoln Co. is the school system. Again, I apologize for being rude. My father, who is a retired school teacher has said for years that the elite in this country are moving to privatize schooling (hence the Jim Crow remark). I understand that hard work pays off and those who work deserve the rewards, believe me. It is just hard for me to see what happens to the child who can't benefit from this system through no fault of their own.

aacoach17 wrote:Frank,
I apologize for my earlier post. It is just very difficult to take when the odds are stacked against you. For example, you use Lincoln Co. There are no businesses in Lincoln Co. to draw the parents. Even if they had the most spectacular school system with all the "cream and fixings", your average West Virginian would not be able to move there for their child. There is no work for them. The biggest employer in Lincoln Co. is the school system. Again, I apologize for being rude. My father, who is a retired school teacher has said for years that the elite in this country are moving to privatize schooling (hence the Jim Crow remark). I understand that hard work pays off and those who work deserve the rewards, believe me. It is just hard for me to see what happens to the child who can't benefit from this system through no fault of their own.

No apologizes needed.
I didn't know where the Jim Crow stuff came from.
I'm just throwing stuff out there. None of it will be picked up. And I don t know if I even agree with some of it. Just thoughts.

Frank wrote:I was told by a principal that a school get so many thousands of dollars added to their yearly budget per student enrolled in there school by the state of West Virginia.

Not exactly. You know my wife was a principal, so I can possibly explain a little. The WVDE sets "minimum" salaries for principals based on student population. They do not get a pay increase when a new student arrives, nor do they get a pay decrease when a student leaves. The bigger the school, the bigger the salary, but it is not a per student thing.

Regardless, we are having a tough time as it is keeping good teachers, principals and administrators because we are surrounded by states that pay better than WV. If we start cutting salaries then the only ones that will stay will be the ones that are too terrible to get a job out of state. All of the good teachers and administrators will drive to VA, PA, OH or KY for better money. Right now, in our old stomping grounds of Greenbrier county there are dozens of teachers and principals that drive into Alleghany county, VA because they make considerably more.

If we want better performance out of teachers, coaches and ADs I suggest bonuses. Want to see a teacher get serious about teaching? Tell them there is a $2000 tax free bonus waiting for them at the end of the year if their students show growth. Want to see an AD get serious about supporting all sports instead of his/her chosen sport? Tell him/her that for every team that wins regionals there is a $500 tax free bonus and for every team that wins states there is a $1000 tax free bonus. Just paying coaches a salary would be a bonus for them...

These are ideas where positive actions produce positive results.

coach_williams wrote:

Frank wrote:I was told by a principal that a school get so many thousands of dollars added to their yearly budget per student enrolled in there school by the state of West Virginia.

Not exactly. You know my wife was a principal, so I can possibly explain a little. The WVDE sets "minimum" salaries for principals based on student population. They do not get a pay increase when a new student arrives, nor do they get a pay decrease when a student leaves. The bigger the school, the bigger the salary, but it is not a per student thing.

Regardless, we are having a tough time as it is keeping good teachers, principals and administrators because we are surrounded by states that pay better than WV. If we start cutting salaries then the only ones that will stay will be the ones that are too terrible to get a job out of state. All of the good teachers and administrators will drive to VA, PA, OH or KY for better money. Right now, in our old stomping grounds of Greenbrier county there are dozens of teachers and principals that drive into Alleghany county, VA because they make considerably more.

If we want better performance out of teachers, coaches and ADs I suggest bonuses. Want to see a teacher get serious about teaching? Tell them there is a $2000 tax free bonus waiting for them at the end of the year if their students show growth. Want to see an AD get serious about supporting all sports instead of his/her chosen sport? Tell him/her that for every team that wins regionals there is a $500 tax free bonus and for every team that wins states there is a $1000 tax free bonus. Just paying coaches a salary would be a bonus for them...

I agree 100%. Bonus structure works in the business world. Education is a business, and the product is the student. Better results should be paid better than average results. Same with athletics, it's a business....and nothing motivates results like the almighty (tax free) dollar.

Frank,
It seems you like to have fun and I enjoy your posts. I do not disagree with all your "positive pay" posts. And I understand you are provoking thought, not necessarily supporting all your thoughts.

If we use monetary motivation, the rich will get richer. The community with the most money will move forward and communities with low jobs and economy will get worse. The folks with money will move to the most competitive schools so their kids will be given what the parents believe to be the best education/athletics. The "haves" will be able to get better while the "have nots" do not have the option. Unless those "have nots" are athletically talented. WV already has open enrollment for the 9th grade.

How bout this, pay the athletes.

Wouldn't the lower income areas want to invest in there schools so that their local kids could excel in academic and athletics, earn scholarships , goto college and come back and be better to reinvest in their communities. The walk of life is always going to be up hill, it's just where you start and finish is different for everyone.

Sallie I don t blame you for not agreeing with everything I post. I don't agree with everything I post and half the time I change my mind on my posts.

As far as paying student athletes. I believe they are payed. Their job is school and athletics. Mine get paid with an education and a roof over his head, plus clothes on his back and food in the off season. And of course the warmth of a fathers love.

Sallie that's something I have never understood
The term no option. You always have an option, it might not be the easiest, or the safest. But there is always an option
U just might not like it.

I don't think being a have or have not is not the main reasoning for success or failure.
I believe it's more the will do s and won't do s.
Cash will help bring a certain level of success but it doesn't guarantee success.

Frank,
Are you talking about adults or kids? Kids do not have much of a choice unless they are 18 or declared an adult earlier by a court. Yes they can choose to work hard. Yes they can choose to be successful and many other choices. Unfortunately, most of them cannot choose their families. They can't just pick up and move because another place has richer resources. I am all for your aforementioned performance evaluations even if it would put me out of the sport I love because I am not worried about me. I fight for the kids whose parents have never attended one of their wrestling matches or demand that they miss practice because they have to babysit another sibling while the parents are out doing god knows what. I know you are just posting things to provoke thought and uplift our great sport and I appreciate it. I just have to get that counterpoint out.

aacoach17 wrote:Frank,
Are you talking about adults or kids? Kids do not have much of a choice unless they are 18 or declared an adult earlier by a court. Yes they can choose to work hard. Yes they can choose to be successful and many other choices. Unfortunately, most of them cannot choose their families. They can't just pick up and move because another place has richer resources. I am all for your aforementioned performance evaluations even if it would put me out of the sport I love because I am not worried about me. I fight for the kids whose parents have never attended one of their wrestling matches or demand that they miss practice because they have to babysit another sibling while the parents are out doing god knows what. I know you are just posting things to provoke thought and uplift our great sport and I appreciate it. I just have to get that counterpoint out.

I just edited my last post, I meant to say have and have nt is not the main factor of success.
I m talking in general. I know many have the deck of life stacked against them and I have heard many success stories of people over coming disavatages becaoming successes in life and history. Stuff like learning to read by candle light.