Wrestling vs. Football - Post Season Play

[Bearhugger]

This post is for my education along with everybody else that plans to join the "Army for Change".

1. We all know that in wrestling, all teams (all varsity wrestlers) are permitted to compete in the regional tournaments. There are four predetermined regions that group the teams together, regardless of team rankings, team records, individual wrestlers' performances, etc. The top four qualify for the state tournament.

2. In high school football, it appears that the top 16 teams enter a tournament and compete until there is a winner. There is no sectional or regional impact on football. The teams are separated in the tournament based on records.

3. Football does not have a limitation to how many players are on the team. Wrestling allows only 14 players. Football does not declare any individual state champion. It is all team based. For many schools, often less than three individuals qualify for the state tournament and move on alone.

4. The football state tournament does not continue play to determine a 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th place winner.

Please add anything you can on this topic.

[mike.carman]

Football games are only played once a week. Wrestlers can wrestle every day. So time is an issue with Football where it isn't an issue with wrestler.

[captaincoalman]

Different sports have different rules who would have ever thought.

[Bearhugger]

Different sports have different rules who would have ever thought.

We all thank you once again for your valuable input.

[Bearhugger]

Football games are only played once a week. Wrestlers can wrestle every day. So time is an issue with Football where it isn't an issue with wrestler.

Wrestlers can wrestle everyday until they run out of weigh ins. How many weigh in do they get?

[mike.carman]

Football games are only played once a week. Wrestlers can wrestle every day. So time is an issue with Football where it isn't an issue with wrestler.

Wrestlers can wrestle everyday until they run out of weigh ins. How many weigh in do they get?

18 not including regional and state. However, they weigh in everyday for the state tournament. If they make it to day three that is three times in three days. That is why I say they can wrestle every day. There is a 5 match limit that they must adhere to and they can't wrestle within 45 minutes of their last match. Football is only played once a week and I don't think they can schedule a second game for that week. That is where time comes into play. A 16 man bracket takes 4 weeks to play out with single elimination. It would take a lot longer if they did double elimination because now you have all those consolation games that need played out. That would add another 2 weeks to the playoffs. That puts it into the start of wrestling season and if you push that back then you push into baseball and track and so forth. A 16 man double elimination tournament can be wrestled in 2 days. Doesn't take near as much time.

[Bucktail]

The point is much simpler. If football can have its own set if standards in the state and not have to abide by the region setup, shouldn't wrestling also be able to adjust its postseason for the good of the sport and community? Its a fair statement and question. Wrestling could be serviced better to accomplish better service to the state's student body as has been mentioned in this format numerous times.

[mike.carman]

The point is much simpler. If football can have its own set if standards in the state and not have to abide by the region setup, shouldn't wrestling also be able to adjust its postseason for the good of the sport and community? Its a fair statement and question. Wrestling could be serviced better to accomplish better service to the state's student body as has been mentioned in this format numerous times.

I would agree with that.

[aaacoach89]

The point is much simpler. If football can have its own set if standards in the state and not have to abide by the region setup, shouldn't wrestling also be able to adjust its postseason for the good of the sport and community? Its a fair statement and question. Wrestling could be serviced better to accomplish better service to the state's student body as has been mentioned in this format numerous times.

I would agree with that.

I would also agree with that. There is no limit to the number of kids that can be on a wrestling team either though. Wrestling can have 14 starters, one per weight class. Football can have 11 starters on offense and 11 starters on defense, one per position. I know that this doesn't mean squat to the point you were making, just making an observation.

[coach_williams]

Football games are only played once a week. Wrestlers can wrestle every day. So time is an issue with Football where it isn't an issue with wrestler.

Wrestlers can wrestle everyday until they run out of weigh ins. How many weigh in do they get?

18 not including regional and state. However, they weigh in everyday for the state tournament. If they make it to day three that is three times in three days. That is why I say they can wrestle every day. There is a 5 match limit that they must adhere to and they can't wrestle within 45 minutes of their last match. Football is only played once a week and I don't think they can schedule a second game for that week. That is where time comes into play. A 16 man bracket takes 4 weeks to play out with single elimination. It would take a lot longer if they did double elimination because now you have all those consolation games that need played out. That would add another 2 weeks to the playoffs. That puts it into the start of wrestling season and if you push that back then you push into baseball and track and so forth. A 16 man double elimination tournament can be wrestled in 2 days. Doesn't take near as much time.

But remember, a meet with 5 or more teams counts as two weigh-ins. So if they attend a meet every day that has 5 teams then they can only wrestle for 9 days in a row before they run out of weigh-ins.

[mike.carman]

Wrestlers can wrestle everyday until they run out of weigh ins. How many weigh in do they get?

18 not including regional and state. However, they weigh in everyday for the state tournament. If they make it to day three that is three times in three days. That is why I say they can wrestle every day. There is a 5 match limit that they must adhere to and they can't wrestle within 45 minutes of their last match. Football is only played once a week and I don't think they can schedule a second game for that week. That is where time comes into play. A 16 man bracket takes 4 weeks to play out with single elimination. It would take a lot longer if they did double elimination because now you have all those consolation games that need played out. That would add another 2 weeks to the playoffs. That puts it into the start of wrestling season and if you push that back then you push into baseball and track and so forth. A 16 man double elimination tournament can be wrestled in 2 days. Doesn't take near as much time.

But remember, a meet with 5 or more teams counts as two weigh-ins. So if they attend a meet every day that has 5 teams then they can only wrestle for 9 days in a row before they run out of weigh-ins.

But the weigh in rule only applies to regular season. This post is about post season play.

[jofus]

Every sport is different. The other sports have a regional format, and in softball for example, only 4 teams make it to "states" in Vienna. I'm quite sure that the four regional champs are not necessarily the four best teams every year for every class. For Volleyball and Basketball, it's 8 teams (unless it's changed recently).

If you're gonna compare to make a point, compare to the other "individual" sports, like track and field, cross country, etc., IMHO. They have a regional format also. I would imagine that the fastest runners in the state aren't always all at the state track meet. That's not to argue the validity of the point necessarily, just that it's the same in every sport.

On a personal note, in track you get DQ'd with your first false start, "to keep things moving", I assume. That cost me a probable place in the shuttles my senior year (I ran second, not first, it wasn't me that false started). Imagine if you got DQ'd for your first false start in wrestling

[Bucktail]

I Don't think issue is really about comparison, its really about doing what is best for the sport. Maybe softball should have 8 teams, but should get to pursue what is best for the interest of their individuals sport. All the sports should be able to achieve their own best scenario and not be governed similarly. Not having regions works great for football. Pa decided to go to 6 classes this year in many sports, like football, and so far, has favorable results, but many in wrestling wanted to keep their numbers with 2 classes, it works for them. Wrestling in WV, really the coaches as they are most invested, should be able to amicably come up with a system that works for everyone (ie...wrestling championship socialism), that doesn't tilt the competitive balance in a favorable/unfavorable direction.

Thought, do you think the champion from region 1,2,3 AAA is excited to see the 4th ranked dude in Region 4 as his first round opponent? Where is the balance? Why can't the region system be scrapped or gerrymandered for each sport? Then it can be revamped every four years when the classifications gets split. Its is a reasonable question.

[Gator]

[quote="jofus"
On a personal note, in track you get DQ'd with your first false start, "to keep things moving", I assume. That cost me a probable place in the shuttles my senior year (I ran second, not first, it wasn't me that false started). Imagine if you got DQ'd for your first false start in wrestling [/quote]



I watched that happen in the Olympics this past year. I felt bad for the ones that were DQ'd by a fraction of a second for one false start. They went off with their head in their hands, sobbing. I don't like that change.

[captaincoalman]

Bearhugger have you contacted anyone at the wvssac about any of these issues yet?

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger have you contacted anyone at the wvssac about any of these issues yet?

No. However, I am purposely waiting until after the regional tournaments this weekend so I have real data to show the negative impact of the NEW regional alignment.

1. I had a discussion on February 9th with a recently retired WVSSAC employee. Details forthcoming after regionals. Memo is typed up.

2. I have put together spreadsheets to show last season's regionals and the regionals of 5 seasons ago. The data clearly shows how poor the new regions were selected. Zero logic. Used only a map. Again, those will be forthcoming.

3. I also figure more coaches and parents will be fired up after the regionals. How is the WVSSAC, Coaches' committee, whoever else going to react if they are bombed with hundreds of calls and emails????

4. I figured out you are a South fan. Maybe if you spend more time working on solving problems and less time messing with me, we can make Wrestling Great Again.

A lot going on behind the scenes. I do not show my hand all the time. I know when to hold them. I might learn when to fold them.

[Frank]

Bearhugger have you contacted anyone at the wvssac about any of these issues yet?

No. However, I am purposely waiting until after the regional tournaments this weekend so I have real data to show the negative impact of the NEW regional alignment.

1. I had a discussion on February 9th with a recently retired WVSSAC employee. Details forthcoming after regionals. Memo is typed up.

2. I have put together spreadsheets to show last season's regionals and the regionals of 5 seasons ago. The data clearly shows how poor the new regions were selected. Zero logic. Used only a map. Again, those will be forthcoming.

3. I also figure more coaches and parents will be fired up after the regionals. How is the WVSSAC, Coaches' committee, whoever else going to react if they are bombed with hundreds of calls and emails????

4. I figured out you are a South fan. Maybe if you spend more time working on solving problems and less time messing with me, we can make Wrestling Great Again.

A lot going on behind the scenes. I do not show my hand all the time. I know when to hold them. I might learn when to fold them.

I love positive posts.
It's all good in the neighborhood